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		<title>The Devil and His Angels</title>
		<description>Discuss The Devil and His Angels</description>
		<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html</link>
		<lastBuildDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 00:47:26 +1000</lastBuildDate>
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			<title>Jason says:</title>
			<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-55</link>
			<description><![CDATA[This passage is one that has been assumed to describe a meeting between God and the angels, amongst which was Satan. The NIV, for example, is one version that translates the passage this way. But this is not its intended sense. For instance, the Hebrew text makes no mention of angels, but refers “sons of God.” Who were they? Paul explains it in Romans 8:14, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.“ The phrase therefore conveys two meanings: •	Ordinary people who keep God’s commands •	Heavenly angels that keep God’s commands. The first of these meanings is illustrated in Genesis 6 where two groups of people are mentioned as intermarrying: sons of God (those keeping God’s commands) and the daughters of men (those not keeping God’s commands). It was a result of this intermarriage between ‘opposites’ that God destroyed the evil world at that time. Both the Old and New Testaments are repeatedly against inter-marriage of these two classes of people. The Hebrew word “Satan” has the basic meaning of an opponent, or an adversary. For this meeting, in the opening chapters of Job, God takes no exception to the opponent’s presence, but asks why he is there. The identity of this opponent is not mentioned in the early chapters, but it may have been Elihu mentioned towards the conclusion of the book. The location of the meeting is not disclosed. To be in God’s presence doesn’t require an appointment “somewhere in the sky”. Cain, after murdering Abel, “went out from the Lord’s presence,” (Genesis 4:16) and yet he was earth-bound throughout the judgment episode. Jonah sailed to Tarsus in a vain attempt to escape from “the presence of the Lord” (Jonan 1:3). God is present at all times amongst those who revere Him. God said to Moses, “My presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.” (Leviticus 26:12) Since neither the person nor the location is mentioned they are not essential to this early Bible story (1500 to 2000BC?). We can each be a “satan” if we harbour evil thoughts or intentions against another person. God can perceive our thoughts wherever we may be—we don’t need to move to be in His heavenly abode. The story of Job is just one such case couched in terms of that ancient time. God perceived the thoughts of Job’s opponent and worked on them. It is unfortunate that translators can express their bias in translating Scripture, but we can each be guilty of reading into Scripture what we would wish to be there.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:41:11 +1000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-55</guid>
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			<title>Adi says:</title>
			<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-49</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Dear Jason, Could you explain "Satan" in Job 1:6-12 Thank You]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Adi</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:52:14 +1000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-49</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>Jason says:</title>
			<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-31</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Hi Robert, Jewish texts often spoke of the final day on which the wicked would be cast into the abyss of fire (e.g. 1 Enoch). The reference in Rev. 20:14 to which you refer is simply making use of the thinking of the people at that time, to acquaint them of an action in terms with which they were familiar. Jesus did the same regarding disease, by couching his message in terms they understood, namely, ‘devils’. The phrase meaning was simply ‘complete destruction’. Obviously, we would have difficulty in imagining fiery lake burning forever with flame, but those thrown into it would remain intact and unharmed forever. I realise that God would be able to perform such a miracle (as He did briefly at ‘the burning bush’ which perplexed Moses because it was not consumed), but would a wise and loving God act this way? Jason]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:38:29 +1000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-31</guid>
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			<title>Jason says:</title>
			<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-30</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Hi Robert, Sorry to put in a sentence that is ambiguous. I was meaning even those who believe in a supernatural devil would have difficulty in accepting that the temptation of Jesus before his trial was anything other than his own mind, facing as he was imminent and cruel death by torture. Jason]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:37:56 +1000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-30</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>Robert says:</title>
			<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-28</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Also please address the casting of satan into the firey lake and what hell is if their isn't a supernatural satan. Thanks]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 05 Feb 2011 13:18:10 +1000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-28</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>Robert says:</title>
			<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-27</link>
			<description><![CDATA[This situation, at the close of his ministry was virtually a repeat of his experience at the start of his ministry. No-one would argue that this last temptation was a work of a supernatural Satan. Likewise for that first temptation in the wilderness. Jason Young Jason, I was hanging in there until that last paragraph above. Maybe it is just the way I am reading it but it seems to state that their is a "supernatural satan". Specifically the next to the last sentence. So in reading your answer to the temptation question, their seems to be a contradiction there at the end. Please clarify that for me. Thanks]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 05 Feb 2011 13:09:09 +1000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-27</guid>
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			<title>Jason says:</title>
			<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-23</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Hi Sarai, Firstly we should try and understand the viewpoint that Jesus himself had in respect to temptation. Read Jesus’ words from Mark’s Gospel: “And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man." (Mark 7:14,15) "What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person." (Mark 7:20–23) Evil doesn’t come from a separate devil or Satan, but from within each of us. In the case of Jesus, his wilderness temptation followed on immediately from his baptism. “ At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased." At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.” (Mark 1:9 –13) The writer to the Hebrew believers wrote: “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin.” We are tempted from within, as Jesus himself stated, and his temptation was no different. Having just received the Holy Spirit power at his baptism, it is understandable that he must wrestle with the thought of unlimited power now available to him. The temptations he had were temptations of the mind—on the fortieth day he did not literally go to the Jerusalem temple, or ascend “a high mountain” accompanied by the devil, or ‘satan’. These scenarios were formed in his mind. James, who was Jesus’ brother, wrote some important words on the subject of temptation, probably with his brother’s experience in mind: “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don't be deceived, my dear brothers.” (James 1:9–16) Temptation is wholly derived inside us (though an initial suggestion may be planted by an outside person). Having wrong thoughts is a result of human nature. But allowing those thoughts to progress further is sin. Jesus had human thoughts (and a perfect knowledge of Scripture from which human thinking might apparently ‘justify’ such human thought), but he immediately rejected them by quoting some more relevant passages to counter such a misuse of Scripture. God had promised the whole world to Jesus (see Genesis 15:1–21, etc), and Jesus would have been aware of it. A superhuman ‘Satan’ did not have that ability to convince Jesus of his credibility in this direction. The word ‘satan’ is a Hebrew term, and merely means ‘an accuser, an adversary’. In the wilderness experience of Jesus, the adversary was his own natural human thoughts that he had to conquer. It is no wonder that there were angels with him at the end, to provide encouragement following his victory over fleshly thinking. It is to be noted that the angels were not involved with shooing away ‘satan’ or capturing ‘him’ before he left the scene—the wilderness was empty except for Jesus and the wild animals (Mark 1:13) It is also very relevant to note how Luke closes the scenario record: “When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.” (Luke 4:13) So when did ‘Satan’ return to visit Jesus? All four Gospel records reveal a blank in this respect, if we are reckoning on a supernatural Being labelled ‘Satan’. But Jesus’ conscience, or his fleshly thinking did crop up again, when thoughts arose contrary to His Father’s plan. “When He came to the place, He said to them, "Pray that you may not enter into temptation." And He was withdrawn from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and prayed, saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done." Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him. And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground. When He rose up from prayer, and had come to His disciples, He found them sleeping from sorrow. Then He said to them, "Why do you sleep? Rise and pray, lest you enter into temptation." And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. (Luke 22:40–47) Read also the parallel passage from Matthew’s Gospel (Matt. 26:37–46). This situation, at the close of his ministry was virtually a repeat of his experience at the start of his ministry. No-one would argue that this last temptation was a work of a supernatural Satan. Likewise for that first temptation in the wilderness. Jason Young]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 08:54:20 +1000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-23</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>Jason says:</title>
			<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-22</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Hi Lux, Thanks for your question and an opportunity to provide an answer. It is difficult in an article to anticipate answers for every aspect. When God created Adam and Eve, they were described as “very good” (Gen. 1:31). At that stage they had not sinned. It was only after they had sinned (by eating of a tree that God had told them to keep away from (Gen. 2:17)) that their nature was changed. And this changed (and degenerative) nature is passed on to the next generation, ad infinitum…. So your assumption that we were not created that way is correct. Had we not been created with freewill then we would have been severely limited in life. We would not have the facility of choice, to choose how we would spend our time, or select an avenue for employment, etc. We are human and have many abilities beyond that of animals—freedom of choice is one of them. We would have been little better than zombies if we didn’t have freewill! So why did Adam and Eve sin? Because they were convinced that there was an alternative way of life that didn’t necessitate being obedient to God. And let’s face it: the same challenge is before every one of us every day! We can believe God and follow His word; or be like Adam & Eve and think we know of a better way. One path leads to Life, and the other to Death. Don’t confuse our human nature and freewill—they are independent facets of life. Having freewill didn’t necessitate Adam sinning—it only made it possible. Jason Young]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 05:36:58 +1000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-22</guid>
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			<title>Sarai says:</title>
			<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-21</link>
			<description><![CDATA[How do you address the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness by the devil?]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Sarai</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:08:34 +1000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-21</guid>
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			<title>lux petens says:</title>
			<link>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-20</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Thank you for this article, it has cleared up quite a few things for me. But I still have a couple questions left unanswered: Why did God create us in an imperfect way, with "Satan" inside all of us? If the answer is he didn't create us this way, we brought it down on ourselves with original sin, why did we sin in the first place? Also, if it is human nature to sin then how do we have free will? Thank you for your time]]></description>
			<dc:creator>lux petens</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 06:35:44 +1000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/36-the-devil-and-his-angels.html#comment-20</guid>
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